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9/1/2013 3:05:12 PM

Semipro
Semipro
Posts: 170
Frances sez: "Like Semipro, I also construct Expert Frameworks (just finished #186) and when test-solving I start with the longest words, which are also in the word-length category with the fewest entries."

I don't test-solve those. It would add even more time to a long job, and my solving might be contaminated by remembering where some of the words go. Instead, I check by keeping a list of the 3-letter words, with letters underlined that are shared with another word where the two intersect. The 3s are the ones most likely to be interchangeable. If a puzzle is dense enough, no words longer than 3 will be interchangeable, or only rarely, maybe a pair of 4s, which I can spot. So if I've used PAT and the A isn't underlined to show that it's anchored by another word, I know not to use PET, PIT, POT, or PUT unless another word anchors its vowel.

I also check the list and the diagram on a printed test copy by filling in the diagram and checking off the words on the list, but this isn't solving.

Starting with the longest words is usually a good strategy for people who are only solving and not constructing, too.

"For the Expert Frames . . . the diagrams are reusable when I don't feel like making new ones."

How's that? I can't do this when the theme is based on letters rather than lengths. A few of my Expert Fwks are called "Working 9 to 5" and use only 5s and 9s. That diagram is reusable. Most of the time, though, the diagram is custom-made to fit the words.

9/1/2013 4:59:42 PM

Frances
Frances
Posts: 486
Hi Semipro,

I have reached the end of a solve before, and had two 6-letter words interchangeable. "What are the odds?" I always wonder. I used to make these frames doing words and diagram as I went along. Then I found I'd start diagramming ahead a bit to see how it would look. Eventually, having the whole diagram done proved to be a time-saver, and lessened the fiddling and erasing. I only had to concentrate on the words. (I've seen some examples lately that are symmetrical, which would also have to be made ahead of time.) It's not carved in stone, though, and if I paint myself into a corner, the denseness of my diagrams allows me to tweak it a bit----a shortened word, or a connection removed without too much spaciness. Are your "Working 9 to 5" frames made with shared letters, or are they simply large-sized All Frames?

Frances.

9/2/2013 12:50:14 AM

Semipro
Semipro
Posts: 170
Frances, the 9-to-5s don't have alphabetic restrictions. The limit of just two lengths is the whole theme. That diagram is symmetrical; my other 25 x 25s aren't. I've seen some symmetrical ones, and they always look too open. A Fwk doesn't look dense enough to me unless it's about 60% filled. A less-filled one is easier to make, of course, but it just doesn't seem adequate--a personal preference of mine, and one that makes more work for me!

9/2/2013 9:05:58 AM

creamchz3@aol.com
creamchz3@aol.com
Posts: 904
Bernadette1959 wrote:
Tdawgg66,

For the framework puzzle you've asked about, the starting four-letter word in the upper left hand corner is BASE.

Hope this will be of some help to you. smile

Bernadette

How did you know where the puzzle was Bernadette? I'm curious. Trying to picture myself looking at page 25 through all the hundreds of books I have. CC

9/2/2013 9:47:49 AM

Bernadette1959
Bernadette1959
Posts: 666
creamchz3@aol.com wrote:
How did you know where the puzzle was Bernadette? I'm curious. Trying to picture myself looking at page 25 through all the hundreds of books I have. CC


Oh, I didn't look through my regular magazines! LOL

The title of the framework sounded very familiar to me so I just got out the last few Penny Selected Puzzles Frameworks books I've finished and it happened to be in the second one I checked, Vol. 33. It's Framework #10 in that volume. smile

Bernadette

9/2/2013 10:30:24 AM

Amy Lowenstein
Amy Lowenstein
Posts: 854
Meanwhile, TDawg is nowhere to be found, and doesn't even say if the "base" hint was helpful. I wonder if TDawg even SAW that hint! Maybe, and maybe not. And sometimes, a person can figure out how to ASK a question of a new forum, but then can't figure out how to go back and find answers.

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Amy

9/2/2013 10:34:08 AM

Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 466
TDawg is certainly one of the more interesting user names we've had in a while. I wonder if we could compile a list of our favorites (usernames) and then vote on them to decide who's is the most interesting.

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Peace Out.

9/2/2013 11:12:18 AM

Bernadette1959
Bernadette1959
Posts: 666
Amy Lowenstein wrote:
Meanwhile, TDawg is nowhere to be found, and doesn't even say if the "base" hint was helpful. I wonder if TDawg even SAW that hint! Maybe, and maybe not. And sometimes, a person can figure out how to ASK a question of a new forum, but then can't figure out how to go back and find answers.



I've been in that situation before, Amy! LOL

Well, the hint is there if Tdawgg wishes to avail himself of it. smile

9/2/2013 5:00:18 PM

Amy Lowenstein
Amy Lowenstein
Posts: 854
KittyFrickinCat and Acenine are interesting names, Chris. I went to the "users" tab and looked up the names of the most recent signers-up for the forum, and those 2 names struck me. Of course, TDawg is also on there today.

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Amy

9/2/2013 8:26:03 PM

creamchz3@aol.com
creamchz3@aol.com
Posts: 904
If you recall that's what started my original "The Forum" was a lull in the amount of people NOT writing in. Well we all know what happened after that! CC

9/3/2013 12:10:09 PM

Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 466
If you click on the users tab at the top of the forum and then click all users there is are at least 22 pages of user names. I'm guessing it would take a bit of time to go through all the user names to come up with a "Top 5" list or something equivalent.

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Peace Out.

9/3/2013 12:24:57 PM

Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 466
I thought Quacker was an amusing username.

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Peace Out.

9/3/2013 12:29:50 PM

Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 466
I enjoy solving Frameworks, but the symmetry of the Fill In puzzle, to me, is more fun. What do you think?

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Peace Out.

9/3/2013 1:59:13 PM

Frances
Frances
Posts: 486
Well, I had a little time. Here are some user names (okay, quite a few) that caught my eye:

a_rosy_glow, againstheflow, aquaflame, badlybent, bigshow, blackorchid, blondemoment, Bobo the Hobo Lobo, buckeyeamy, bugaboo, Bugswerve, buster-spud-jiggers, cacmacac, Cannot Display, CatzCradle, chikefroth, Chriswords, Clockwatcher, clovermath, coconutmom, confusedkelly, coolowl, critters, dawgdude66, ding-dong-daddy, dolphingram, dwrect, empressofbugs, EriktheUnready, escapedcommieny, euphemist, ferfer72, fletchers-arrow, FourEyedLady, GIGGLES3591.

Glitterpixiee, goggie, GothiousRex, greengrass, Greensleeves Maverick, HappyFergie; Hatecommunications, hiccupz, hodgeheaven, holyheck, hoophoop, illiogical, imbored, imsobored, InMyLittleTown, joyseeking, junebugg19, Justdancingaway4lyf, KansasWheat, kosmikvoid, krispy, Lady Grease Monkey, learnernotlurker, lettingitgo3, LifeDontWasteIt, lilgothbaby, logicallife, logiplex, loser123, loser304, MamaMia, marshmellow, McSpeedo, MostlyGoofy, moviepyro, mrfreeze1.

mrmagoo144, Ms Western States, Nick Danger, notourproblem, oldbushie, OliveCupcake, onway2much, ozone, peanutfaust, peekaboo, picturethisfanatic, PrettyPorcupine, professor anthrax, rainydayz, rapidrabbit, recyclepolicewoman, redbuzzard, Sewknitcro, sillymonkey, Skittlebaby, sleepyhead, smkymtnsunrise, Son of Ares, Spudkitty, Tahoe Tootsie, thisismyusername, tinkercane, tissuepaperpet, tootietoot, tweekymikie, woohoo.

Someone with variations of Sean registered 21 times April 29-May2, 2008. (Please pardon any typos---tough typing.)

9/3/2013 2:21:39 PM

Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 466
By my count, there has been about 170 posts on the forum in the past 2 weeks.

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Peace Out.

9/10/2013 7:16:41 PM

Bernadette1959
Bernadette1959
Posts: 666
Chris the Indiana Puzzler wrote:
I enjoy solving Frameworks, but the symmetry of the Fill In puzzle, to me, is more fun. What do you think?


Chris, have you tried the "Topsy Turvy Fill-In" puzzles yet? I believe they're new as I've just started coming across them in the PP variety magazines.

Instead of the words being filled in reading from left to right and top to bottom, they are filled in from right to left and from bottom to top. The first time I encountered this variation I had turned the page of a magazine and thought, "Okay, I'll solve this fill in puzzle!" and jumped right in without noticing the different directions. I couldn't find any correct words in the word lists and thought PP had really goofed up. But it wasn't them, it was me! LOL!

The topsy turvy puzzles are really a lot of fun!
edited by Bernadette1959 on 9/10/2013

9/10/2013 9:57:18 PM

Amy Lowenstein
Amy Lowenstein
Posts: 854
Oh, so in a way, one could pretend these puzzles were Hebrew-oriented.

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Amy

9/11/2013 7:05:11 AM

Bernadette1959
Bernadette1959
Posts: 666
LOL! I guess you could, Amy! smile

Incidentally, last night I happened to come across a few back issues from 2010 I had stowed away and one of those contained a Topsy Turvy Fill-In. So, they aren't really that new, just new to me!

9/11/2013 4:06:15 PM

Amy Lowenstein
Amy Lowenstein
Posts: 854
Chris, I liked your "funny" picture, but the blueberries are pretty, too.

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Amy

9/11/2013 5:53:09 PM

Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Chris the Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 466
Amy Lowenstein wrote:
Chris, I liked your "funny" picture, but the blueberries are pretty, too.



Actually, I think it's stones on a seashore.
edited by Chris_INPUZZLER on 9/11/2013

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Peace Out.

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