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6/6/2012 10:34:24 AM

walwb
walwb
Posts: 4
I always do all of the frameworks in the variety book and I enjoy how there are different variations such as fiddlers frame, timed frame, number frame, and master frame. When I ordered a book of just frameworks I was a tad bit disappointed that there weren't any of these special types of frameworks in the book. So I was wondering if you had a book of all (or mostly) variety frameworks. Thanks for your time!

6/6/2012 2:44:42 PM

creamchz3@aol.com
creamchz3@aol.com
Posts: 947
Welcome to my world. I've ordered the Selected What's Left mags and all the puzzles are the same size. Short and easy! They are not like that in the Variety Puzzle Books. I finally got one that wasn't so I ordered more, I shouldn't have, their all the same. Real disappointment. CC

6/8/2012 7:42:58 AM

The Editors
The Editors
Posts: 118
Dear walwb,
Thank you your interest in Penny Press. We’re glad to hear how much you enjoy or Frameworks puzzles. Although we do not currently have plans to produce volumes made up exclusively of the special types of Frameworks you enjoy, please be aware that we will begin including these puzzles in our Frameworks Selected Puzzles collections starting with volumes #35 and #36 (on sale in September of this year). For example, Volume #35 will include 11 Timed Frameworks, 7 Number Frameworks, 3 Framelinks, plus a few other special puzzles out of a total of 75 puzzles. The majority of the puzzles in these volumes will continue to be standard Frameworks. The specific types of special Frameworks included will vary from volume to volume. Hope this helps.
The Editors

6/12/2012 9:01:05 PM

aries
aries
Posts: 14
I'd like to see more fiddler's frames in the frameworks special volumes. I haven't ordered any frameworks special volumes because the fiddler's frames haven't been included.

8/30/2013 1:30:08 PM

tdawgg66
tdawgg66
Posts: 1
I'm looking for the solutions to the "expert frameworks" puzzle #9 from the favorite variety puzzles and games book, page 25 entitled ( "As" is ) on the puzzle it indicates that the solution is found on page 93 ... I don't have the book and need your help please. Thx.

8/30/2013 3:10:16 PM

Indiana Puzzler
Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 559
Which issue are you working in (month / year)?

tdawgg66 wrote:
I'm looking for the solutions to the "expert frameworks" puzzle #9 from the favorite variety puzzles and games book, page 25 entitled ( "As" is ) on the puzzle it indicates that the solution is found on page 93 ... I don't have the book and need your help please. Thx.

8/30/2013 3:48:05 PM

creamchz3@aol.com
creamchz3@aol.com
Posts: 947
I have all Variety books from 3 years back but Chris is right we need a month and year or we can't help you. CC

8/31/2013 12:31:16 AM

Semipro
Semipro
Posts: 292
tdawgg, the only reason I know of that someone would "need" the solution to a Framework and not have the whole magazine, including the solutions section in the back, is that it's a school assignment. Solving Frameworks isn't that hard. It's a matter of logic. Usually it's best to start by picking a word from a length category that contains few words and tentatively placing that word in the diagram. Then see whether the available words on the list that cross your word have letters in positions that make the crossings possible. The early phase of solving is harder. Later, as more of the diagram is filled and you have fewer words to choose from, it gets easier.

8/31/2013 10:58:26 AM

Indiana Puzzler
Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 559
Semipro,

Do you solve frameworks with no hints? I love solving them but typically utilize the "first word across" hint. I've tried to match the expert solvers times but never even some close. I recently picked up the past to selected volumes of Frameworks but have been so busy solving other puzzles that I haven't even cracked them open.

Semipro wrote:
tdawgg, the only reason I know of that someone would "need" the solution to a Framework and not have the whole magazine, including the solutions section in the back, is that it's a school assignment. Solving Frameworks isn't that hard. It's a matter of logic. Usually it's best to start by picking a word from a length category that contains few words and tentatively placing that word in the diagram. Then see whether the available words on the list that cross your word have letters in positions that make the crossings possible. The early phase of solving is harder. Later, as more of the diagram is filled and you have fewer words to choose from, it gets easier.

8/31/2013 5:54:33 PM

creamchz3@aol.com
creamchz3@aol.com
Posts: 947
Yes, I thought of the homework thing too. My goodness how many times do we have to go down that road? FOR ALL YOU STUDENTS OUT THERE...THE ANSWERS ARE IN THE BACK OF THE BOOK! IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE BOOK YOU WILL GET NO HELP ON THIS FORUM!!! I hope that helps! CC

8/31/2013 8:20:29 PM

Purple Pisces
Purple Pisces
Posts: 878
Bernadette1959 wrote:

I wish I could say that about all the puzzles I solve. I had to put my KenKen and Sudoku puzzles away for a while because I was becoming more than a bit obsessed with them. I got back out of the bed the other night after thinking about a KenKen puzzle I was stumped on because an answer came to me and I had to fill it in right then. I knew it was time for me to take a break. LOL


There have been nights where I go to sleep while still trying to solve a puzzle in my head. It's nice to see I'm not the only one! smile The only difference is I'm too comfortable/lazy to get up and check if I'm right LOL!

8/31/2013 8:21:27 PM

Semipro
Semipro
Posts: 292
Chris, I can solve Fwks with no hints, but it takes longer. Anyway, I don't attempt Fwks anymore. I'd rather construct them than solve them. I've written lots of Expert Fwks. My file copies of them occupy four file folders with total thickness almost two inches.

CC, if a student comes back and asks for specific help with reasoning out a logic problem instead of the solution on a silver platter, often we do some coaching. It's usually a logic problem. I don't recall anyone asking for the solution to a Fwk before. The solution would be hard to type out, wouldn't it!

9/1/2013 7:47:47 AM

creamchz3@aol.com
creamchz3@aol.com
Posts: 947
Yes it would. I don't have a problem giving them a start to the puzzle which can be a big help but again why would they have the puzzle and not the whole book with the answers? I will give them points for actually finding the forum where they might get help but if they can't give a month and year it tells ya something is not right. This has happened with many puzzles and as soon as we bring up the homework thing we never hear back from them. Makes you think we might be on the right track. CC

9/1/2013 8:31:12 AM

Indiana Puzzler
Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 559
I wouldn't mind taking a class in which a Frameworks was the assigned homework!

9/1/2013 12:09:20 PM

Frances
Frances
Posts: 698
Like Semipro, I also construct Expert Frameworks (just finished #186) and when test-solving I start with the longest words, which are also in the word-length category with the fewest entries. Since my puzzles have 4- to 8-letter words (those where the words share one letter) or 5- to 8-letter words (words share 1, or more often 2 letters), I pencil in an 8 in one of the squares of each 8-letter word in the diagram and use these as places to concentrate on.

I don't save copies of my puzzles once they're paid for, but I will save bonus words, phrases, diagrams etc. For the Expert Frames I have different charts with shared letter(s), dates, titles, and diagrams with their word counts. It helps so I can move around the alphabet when picking which letter(s) to feature and not repeat myself too often, and the diagrams are reusable when I don't feel like making new ones.

Our little forum sure has been humming along the last couple of weeks! smile

9/1/2013 12:48:28 PM

Indiana Puzzler
Indiana Puzzler
Posts: 559
"Our little forum sure has been humming along the last couple of weeks!"

Nice observation, Frances.


I think a funk came over the forum when the news about TDHO was revealed. After checking and checking to only see no updates, I thought I would make some posts (i.e., newspaper discussion and other topics) to get the conversations going again. I really enjoy reading and posting here - I think of it as a little club. Most people I meet and know don't share my obsession over solving puzzles.

edited by Chris_INPUZZLER on 9/1/2013

9/1/2013 3:05:12 PM

Semipro
Semipro
Posts: 292
Frances sez: "Like Semipro, I also construct Expert Frameworks (just finished #186) and when test-solving I start with the longest words, which are also in the word-length category with the fewest entries."

I don't test-solve those. It would add even more time to a long job, and my solving might be contaminated by remembering where some of the words go. Instead, I check by keeping a list of the 3-letter words, with letters underlined that are shared with another word where the two intersect. The 3s are the ones most likely to be interchangeable. If a puzzle is dense enough, no words longer than 3 will be interchangeable, or only rarely, maybe a pair of 4s, which I can spot. So if I've used PAT and the A isn't underlined to show that it's anchored by another word, I know not to use PET, PIT, POT, or PUT unless another word anchors its vowel.

I also check the list and the diagram on a printed test copy by filling in the diagram and checking off the words on the list, but this isn't solving.

Starting with the longest words is usually a good strategy for people who are only solving and not constructing, too.

"For the Expert Frames . . . the diagrams are reusable when I don't feel like making new ones."

How's that? I can't do this when the theme is based on letters rather than lengths. A few of my Expert Fwks are called "Working 9 to 5" and use only 5s and 9s. That diagram is reusable. Most of the time, though, the diagram is custom-made to fit the words.

9/1/2013 4:59:42 PM

Frances
Frances
Posts: 698
Hi Semipro,

I have reached the end of a solve before, and had two 6-letter words interchangeable. "What are the odds?" I always wonder. I used to make these frames doing words and diagram as I went along. Then I found I'd start diagramming ahead a bit to see how it would look. Eventually, having the whole diagram done proved to be a time-saver, and lessened the fiddling and erasing. I only had to concentrate on the words. (I've seen some examples lately that are symmetrical, which would also have to be made ahead of time.) It's not carved in stone, though, and if I paint myself into a corner, the denseness of my diagrams allows me to tweak it a bit----a shortened word, or a connection removed without too much spaciness. Are your "Working 9 to 5" frames made with shared letters, or are they simply large-sized All Frames?

Frances.

9/2/2013 12:50:14 AM

Semipro
Semipro
Posts: 292
Frances, the 9-to-5s don't have alphabetic restrictions. The limit of just two lengths is the whole theme. That diagram is symmetrical; my other 25 x 25s aren't. I've seen some symmetrical ones, and they always look too open. A Fwk doesn't look dense enough to me unless it's about 60% filled. A less-filled one is easier to make, of course, but it just doesn't seem adequate--a personal preference of mine, and one that makes more work for me!

9/2/2013 9:05:58 AM

creamchz3@aol.com
creamchz3@aol.com
Posts: 947
Bernadette1959 wrote:
Tdawgg66,

For the framework puzzle you've asked about, the starting four-letter word in the upper left hand corner is BASE.

Hope this will be of some help to you. smile

Bernadette

How did you know where the puzzle was Bernadette? I'm curious. Trying to picture myself looking at page 25 through all the hundreds of books I have. CC

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