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Logic Problem fans, discuss solutions and get solving help.
2/22/2013 2:48:16 PM

dougiezerts
dougiezerts
Posts: 9
I often get confused with "more, or less," or aslo "before/after" clues. In fact, they're my undoing, in many logics!
A couple examples: "The steak was more than Roger's dish, but $1 less than Mr Hanson's." "Richard performed before Ms Smith, but just after the guitarist."
Any of you have advice on how best to go about these clues? Thanks!

2/22/2013 3:25:13 PM

Amy Lowenstein
Amy Lowenstein
Posts: 1599
I usually make comments in the space above the clue. If something is "just before" or "just after" something, I use a comma, but if it's "somewhere before" or "somewhere after" I use ellipses. If one clue says something is "after" something, but another clue says something is "before" something, I convert all of them to one format, where the "before" is on the left and the "after" is on the right.

Thus, I might make crib sheets for myself that show, for example: Jonathan,redhead,professor
and Douglas ... blond ... Mary

It comes in very handy when one clue can be written as Jonathan,redhead,professor
and another clue can be written as blond,Andrea

Since "redhead" can't be "blond," then I know that Andrea isn't the professor, and my format makes it very obvious, at least to me. When I cross out the "Andrea" and "professor" box in the grid, I remind myself how I knew this by putting a tiny "TL" by my X, the TL standing for "time line." I call a lot of things "time lines" even if time isn't actually what it's about. Sometimes there might be a "money line" as well as a "time line" and then I'll use "ML" as a clue to myself.

Essentially, you have to remember to convert everything to one consistent way of looking at it, making all the "afters" convert to the other way around and "before," if you see what I'm getting at.

--
Amy

2/22/2013 3:55:22 PM

Frances
Frances
Posts: 698
I make small charts in the open spaces of the puzzle page, or on another piece of paper:

Roger---------27----27-29----27-32
steak----------28----32--------33
Mr. Hanson---29----33--------34
..................................................

guitarist----1--------2------3
Richard-----2-------3-------4
Ms. Smith--3/4/5--4/5-----5
.................................................

Now, if when solving we find the steak isn't $32, then we now know Mr. Hanson isn't $33. Likewise, if we learn that Ms. Smith wasn't fifth, then we can forget about the guitarist performing third, and Richard fourth. Another helpful thing: Let's say we know Frank's dish was $1 less than Mr. Brown's.

Frank---------28----33
Mr. Brown----29----34

Frank couldn't have had the steak, since that would make Mr. Hanson and Mr. Brown the same person! I hope Amy and I have helped you. smile
edited by Frances on 2/22/2013

2/22/2013 4:04:19 PM

dougiezerts
dougiezerts
Posts: 9
Thanks for your advice!

12/12/2013 5:50:02 PM

cocatfan
cocatfan
Posts: 12
Frances wrote:
I make small charts in the open spaces of the puzzle page, or on another piece of paper:

Roger---------27----27-29----27-32
steak----------28----32--------33
Mr. Hanson---29----33--------34
..................................................

guitarist----1--------2------3
Richard-----2-------3-------4
Ms. Smith--3/4/5--4/5-----5
.................................................

Now, if when solving we find the steak isn't $32, then we now know Mr. Hanson isn't $33. Likewise, if we learn that Ms. Smith wasn't fifth, then we can forget about the guitarist performing third, and Richard fourth. Another helpful thing: Let's say we know Frank's dish was $1 less than Mr. Brown's.

Frank---------28----33
Mr. Brown----29----34

Frank couldn't have had the steak, since that would make Mr. Hanson and Mr. Brown the same person! I hope Amy and I have helped you. smile
edited by Frances on 2/22/2013


Wow. That seems like that could be helpful. Kinda makes my head spin. I wish I could sit down with someone and go through a few puzzles and really get ideas on how to do them because I love them but am terrible at them!

12/12/2013 8:01:54 PM

Purple Pisces
Purple Pisces
Posts: 878
Welcome to the forum cocatfan! smile The more puzzles you do the more comfortable you'll become with the different methods used to solve them. My suggestion would be to start with the easier puzzles. Sometimes the clues can seem overwhelming and offer up a lot of info at once, the best thing to do is break down the clue into sections so it's easier to work through. And as other posters have mentioned it's often helpful to make notes in the margin to keep track of info.

Also here's a link for help on how to solve logic problems from the site here: http://www.pennydellpuzzles.com/upload/documents/How%20to%20Solve%20Logic%20Problems.pdf

An important thing to add, when you get stuck on a puzzle the best thing you can do is step away from it for a while. It always helps to look at it with a fresh set of eyes. And any time you need help there are logic fans here who are happy to help in any way they can! smile

12/13/2013 7:39:39 AM

Amy Lowenstein
Amy Lowenstein
Posts: 1599
Cocaffan, I see you like the same kitty symbol that Cream Cheese likes. It will get confusing figuring out who's who, but any posts about logic puzzles couldn't be CC so those have to be you. Welcome to the forum.

--
Amy

12/19/2013 1:37:21 PM

cocatfan
cocatfan
Posts: 12
Purple Pisces wrote:
Welcome to the forum cocatfan! smile The more puzzles you do the more comfortable you'll become with the different methods used to solve them. My suggestion would be to start with the easier puzzles. Sometimes the clues can seem overwhelming and offer up a lot of info at once, the best thing to do is break down the clue into sections so it's easier to work through. And as other posters have mentioned it's often helpful to make notes in the margin to keep track of info.

Also here's a link for help on how to solve logic problems from the site here: http://www.pennydellpuzzles.com/upload/documents/How%20to%20Solve%20Logic%20Problems.pdf

An important thing to add, when you get stuck on a puzzle the best thing you can do is step away from it for a while. It always helps to look at it with a fresh set of eyes. And any time you need help there are logic fans here who are happy to help in any way they can! smile


I have done many many many logic puzzles, I don't seem to progress in ability which is my frustration. I usually have a full sheet of paper with this or that, who can be what, who can't etc. written all over it. My head spins and I get frustrated and only finish maybe 1 out of 10 puzzles I try. Very bad.
Amy-in-PA, I will change my kitty icon, I just have to make one of my cat pics fit the upload requirements. Will do it now.

12/19/2013 1:49:02 PM

cocatfan
cocatfan
Posts: 12
Amy, I tried to resize a personal pic to make it my avatar and this site keeps telling me it is still to big, it is so tiny I can barely see it. So my flying kitty avatar stays for now.

12/19/2013 1:57:14 PM

cocatfan
cocatfan
Posts: 12
cocatfan wrote:
Amy, I tried to resize a personal pic to make it my avatar and this site keeps telling me it is still to big, it is so tiny I can barely see it. So my flying kitty avatar stays for now.



I found an avatar generator. Done. Enuff stress for me.

12/19/2013 2:39:12 PM

Purple Pisces
Purple Pisces
Posts: 878
Very cute cat cocatfan!! smile

If you ever want to try and solve a puzzle that's available to both of us online (such as one from the free puzzle section) I'd be happy to help go through it with you. I know it may be a little trickier doing something like this online, but will be happy to help if and when you want.

12/20/2013 7:06:24 AM

Amy Lowenstein
Amy Lowenstein
Posts: 1599
Your new kitten picture is adorable, Cocatfan. And I guess we have 3 members now with different kitty pictures: CC, Purple, and you.
edited by Amy-in-PA on 12/20/2013

--
Amy

9/20/2014 3:13:38 AM

Thomas Lauffenberger
Thomas Lauffenberger
Posts: 1
dougiezerts wrote:
I often get confused with "more, or less," or aslo "before/after" clues. In fact, they're my undoing, in many logics!
A couple examples: "The steak was more than Roger's dish, but $1 less than Mr Hanson's." "Richard performed before Ms Smith, but just after the guitarist."
Any of you have advice on how best to go about these clues? Thanks!


Two things will help: 1) If you don't have a truth table ready, prepare one using grid paper. They're indispensable when it comes to keeping track of your reasoning. 2) Whenever you have an "order" feature in a puzzle (time, amount, etc.), pay attention to your clue; if two entities are mentioned, whichever is greater/later cannot be the least/earliest, and vice versa, so eliminate those from your table. Also, if the entities are not from the same class, then they cannot be related to each other. Example: In the steak/Roger/Hanson example, the steak is more expensive than Roger's entree but cheaper than Mr. Hanson's, so Roger cannot have had either of the two most expensive entrees, the steak is neither most nor least expensive, and Mr. Hanson's entree was not either of the two cheapest. Mark those accordingly. Furthermore, these three entities come from three different classes (entree, first name, surname), so Roger didn't have steak, Roger isn't Mr. Hanson, and Mr. Hanson didn't have steak either. Again, mark these. Further deduction once you eliminate more possibilities will settle things out.

9/20/2014 2:53:24 PM

Purple Pisces
Purple Pisces
Posts: 878
Welcome to the forum Thomas! Always nice to meet another logic puzzle fan! smile

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